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(music: two robots having an absurd conversation)
Elizabeth W. Bellamy - "Ely's Automatic Housemaid" (1899)
Gretchen:
Hello, this is Chrononauts, a science fiction literature history podcast. I'm Gretchen, joined by my co-hosts, Nate and J.M. This section is part of our episode looking at machines and artificial intelligence. The past two works we've covered are "Erewhon" and "Triumph of Mechanics", which you can find in other sections of this episode, but for this segment we will be focusing on Elizabeth W. Bellamy and Alice W. Fuller's stories.
Elizabeth W. Bellamy was born Elizabeth Croom in Florida on April 17th, 1839, though her family later moved to Georgia. In 1858, she married her cousin, Charles Bellamy, and had two children, though the latter three would all pass away before the end of the Civil War. Also during the war, her father's plantation would be wrecked, and soon after he declared bankruptcy. As her family's fortune declined, Bellamy, encouraged by her brother, took up writing. She gained some acclaim for her works, especially for her book "Four Oaks", which she wrote under her pen name Kamba Thorpe in 1867.
Alongside her writing, she gained her income through teaching, and after the death of her brother, his widow lived with her and helped her run a school from their home. Bellamy died in 1900, and the story we will be reading by her, "Ely's Automatic Housemaid", is among her last.
This story is very similar with the next one we'll be covering, but I do feel like it might be interesting to start with this one because of the differences and endings of both of them.
JM:
Yeah, I actually thought this was most similar to "Triumph of Mechanics" in that it was like a slapstick story about machines gone at a bit awry, but it didn't have the awesome wily inventor getting up on stage and dominating the crowd and all that, but yeah.
Gretchen:
Yeah, and the machines aren't little rabbits.
Nate:
No.
JM:
But it did have two clunking big robot things swinging their big iron arms at each other and knocking everything over and causing general chaos.
Nate:
Yeah, I do like the focus on domestic work in this one, as it's an angle that I guess was a major part of women's lives and spheres in the late 19th century, early 20th century, but it doesn't get incorporated into a lot of science fiction in the way that we're projecting out future technologies to reflect that world and that labor. I mean, we hear a lot of talk about labor and machines and how machines can transform the industry, but a lot of it is focused more on like factory production. It's not focused on cooking and cleaning.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Yeah, and it's interesting to see in this story, and I do have a couple of moments that I referenced in my summary, but that kind of like conflict between machines being part of the more outside sphere of the world and that being brought into the home and that conflict with like the domestic and the machines that apparently women don't understand.
JM:
So do you think that this was like a kind of a story about a woman who is afraid that her like secure place at a middle class household is going to be usurped by cold, unthinking program machines made by men?
Gretchen:
Yeah, I think that the character who is most, as you'll see, but kind of disgusted and like horrified by these machines is the wife who has to also put up with them while the husband just can go off to work and doesn't have to deal with it. And he's just so happy about the machines, even when they start going haywire.
JM:
Meanwhile, the machines are really stupid and you can't really program like you can't get them to do anything properly. Like it seems like it would be more work to have them than to benefit from them.
Nate:
Yeah, almost like these stupid men who don't know what they're talking about are dealing with forcing the solution where there doesn't need to be one.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Yeah. And even the description of Ely is someone who kind of like, yeah, he's great at machines, but everything else he kind of fails at. He's not very knowledgeable in any other sphere.
JM:
Right. And I guess in that sense, there is definitely like a strong similarity to, I mean, I can't help but after this point, make parallels and I'll draw a very obvious one with a previous podcast episode next story. But yeah, this is this definitely bears a similarity to the upcoming "Wife Manufactured to Order" in that it seems to be some sort of upstart man coming in there and invading somebody else's role in space and being like, Oh, I can create the thing. Right. And obviously, the biggest instance that we've had of something like this so far is "Future Eve". And I'm definitely going to talk about that more next story.
But even something like this, it feels like it feels like a story about like usurpation, but in a way that's like not clever or not great. Because maybe because it's written by a woman you can put the feminist angle on it, maybe it's because she's seeing like, how men see these kind of roles, you can just sort of tweak a dial, and it'll be on the bed making mode. And as long as you don't fuck with it, it's going to work fine.
Nate:
Yeah. No, I get a dehumanizing like a lot of the other mechanical intelligence stories we've covered this session. And in a very interesting way, too. And I had an experience recently where I got stuck waiting for an oil change at a car place. So I got to see the same infomercial for one of those new robo vacuums that run around the house and they have like a b-reel clip of it messing up and like shooting dust in the air and all that. And so reading this off of that experience, I think was a nice coincidence.
JM:
That's kind of great.
Nate:
Yeah.
JM:
Very appropriate.
Gretchen:
You have to wonder how Bellamy would feel about Roombas.
Nate:
Yeah, probably not like them that much. I mean, they're not that far off from one of the machines described here really.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Yes, I will get into the story so that we can see how the ending here and may differ from the next story we'll be reading.
So Harrison Ely, the titular character. is a man the narrator knew while in school. He was, as described by the latter, a mechanical genius. Yet he never really excelled at any other subjects and therefore made no name for himself in academics. Yet when the narrator receives a letter from Ely at the start of the story, it appears the man has created an invention that promises him future success. Contained in the letter are details of Ely's automatic household beneficent genius, a practical realization of the fabled familiar of the Middle Ages.
He has two models, Ely writes, and hopes the narrator will buy them and help to sell them. The narrator, fed up with the apparent inadequacy of his human servants, is enthusiastic about Ely's inventions, though his wife, Anna Maria, has some concerns, including some worries about the machine's cost. Despite these doubts, however, the narrator proceeds with his decision to take on Ely's housemaids.
After sending their human maid away, the narrator and his family prepare to unbox Ely's models. They are both humanoid in shape with a body containing wheels and springs and a head containing a battery. As they are unveiled, the sight of the machines causes some shock to the family, especially Anna Maria. There is Juliana, the maid, and Bridget, the cook, each indicated by dials on their bodies that show their functions as well as timers to set how long they have to perform their tasks.
JM:
Yeah, and she just gave them the names of the previous people that had been there, right?
Gretchen:
Yeah, Bridget is the cook from the last time.
JM:
Yeah, this is the new Bridget.
Gretchen:
Yeah, Juliana and Bridget 2.0.
The narrator tests Juliana first, giving her 30 minutes to work on making the beds. As he sets her up, he doesn't consult his wife as he claims women do not understand machinery, which is quite an attitude to take when she'll be the one around.
As Juliana starts on her task, the family watches but stays out of the way as the directions state they should not interfere with the machines as they work. While Juliana is finishing making the beds, one of the narrator's sons sits upon one that has already been made, only for the maid to repeat her task, shaking the boy roughly off the bed to remake it. The narrator then realizes that Bridget is working in the kitchen, having been activated by his other son, though instead of performing any productive task, she stirs an empty pan and is set to do so for an hour and a half.
JM:
Yes, this is so funny too, again, because we have the same situation where I'm like, how do these things work?
Gretchen:
Yeah, you have them doing tasks when it's like, you're not really sure how they intuit what they're supposed to be doing.
JM:
Yeah, it's like if you put it into the right notch and it'll hopefully do what it's supposed to do, but like if you get then something gets in the way or if like, like how does it know where your pots are in the kitchen and which ones to pull out? Like you have to pretty much do everything for it ahead of time. What's the point in even having this labor-saving device?
Nate:
It's certainly not a very efficient algorithm, that's for sure.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
Nate:
No good pathfinding, no object detection, none of that, just kind of running on autopilot, literally.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
JM:
But it is funny because we do have a lot of labor-saving devices, right? We figure out uses for them, even though it seems kind of silly. I mean, we have them now like those Keurig coffee machines, right? Why wouldn't I grind my own coffee? What the hell? Why would I use something like that? But I don't know, it's funny the way this was expressed back then, right? Like seeing this, it's definitely surreal and cool, especially how violent the machines get.
Nate:
Yeah.
Gretchen:
Though Juliana soon freezes in the middle of her work, having torn up the beds as she continues remaking them, once her half hour is up, the narrator bemoans that the cook is still continuing to do nothing in the kitchen while he still has an empty stomach. His wife though, luckily, had made coffee beforehand, and he claims that she was worth a thousand beneficent geniuses. When the narrator returns from work later in the day, he finds his wife disgusted by the machines, as she describes having to oil them by pouring it down their throats in a way that makes her feel like they are alive. The narrator, though, brushes this off.
One of the sons has realized that the servants can be activated at certain times to work, like alarm clocks, so the narrator decides to set them for early the next morning, but claims they will have to learn their ways before setting them to work earlier. To which Anna Maria remarks, that's the trouble with all new servants. The family is woken that morning by a commotion, and they discover Juliana and Bridget fighting over a broom, both of them set on the task of sweeping with the only broom in the household. The fighting is extreme, ruining furniture and causing the death of a rubber plant, and causing damage to each other, but as the time allotted to their tasks runs out, they stop instantly.
JM:
Yeah, good thing you have to basically wind them up, I guess.
Gretchen:
Yeah, the one benefit is that there is a time when they can stop.
The narrator calls for Ely, who later arrives and inspects the housemaids. He claims nothing is wrong with them, except that they were excessively oiled and had too much energy.
JM:
So isn't this basically like the calculator, what was the name of that story?
Nate:
Yeah, the dry calculator. Cornelius, something, yeah. It's the same kind of. Too much oil.
Gretchen:
Too much oil. And of course it's the wife's fault.
Nate:
Yeah, right.
Gretchen:
She's the one that oiled them. Yes. But Ely takes them away to be adjusted. The narrator concludes his tale, claiming that he looks forward to having the machines returned, and once again, working.
So yeah, the narrator seems still pretty happy with the machines, despite the chaos that they've already caused in the house.
Nate:
Yeah, it's promising technology. It doesn't matter if they destroy your whole house. Think of what they can do in the future.
Gretchen:
Yeah. And of course, again, it's the oil. It's too much oil. So as long as Anna Maria knows how to oil them, it should be fine.
Nate:
Try a little water next time, maybe a little wine.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
Nate:
No, this is a lot of fun, though. I really like the slapstick comedy of this. It's a much needed element to some of the stories we've read tonight. And it has a interesting angle of, again, taking it to the domestic household sphere of labor.
I did like the touch of naming the robot and the servant Bridget, which is kind of a derogatory name for Irish servants around the time. Probably ties into some of the class issues related to this kind of servant labor work.
JM:
But at the same time, if you have it replaced by a machine, look what havoc they'll make of it.
Nate:
Yeah.
JM:
Right. I don't know, it is a very like middle class kind of story, right? Or it just look at how this could unsettle and upset our entire lives. And again, you have these fascinating machines where we as the modern reader, we can't help but be, how does this machine function? How it doesn't see anything. It doesn't know, like, it knows to be able to walk upstairs and go up to the bedrooms and find the beds, but it doesn't understand basic things.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Yeah, it's like the whole thing where it's like, it knows how to locate the one broom in the house. And yet they still fight over it because they both are somehow so wedded to doing the task of sweeping when...
Nate:
They apparently know how to fight too.
JM:
I mean, I but it's also this basic like feeling that was probably and to be honest, it's still a thing now really, but this basic feeling that the technology that we all use and that operates around us, we don't really understand how it works. And especially most people don't understand how it works. And younger people today, a lot of them are used to the internet and they're used to the internet being a thing, but they still don't really understand how it works. And they fundamentally make mistakes that show that they don't really understand how it works. And is the same with older folks who were not brought up with the technology, but it's like, it's a really interesting thing that comes up a lot in science fiction too, whereas the attitude about technology and how so many people will misunderstand it and continue to misunderstand it. And here we have these automatic beings that are pretty much just operating according to some kind of physical limitation, right? Like, they're designed to do a certain thing. And that's it. And if you get in their way, well, God help you, right?
Gretchen:
You have to imagine when that those directions being like, by no means, interact with them, interfere with them when they're doing those tasks.
Nate:
Yeah, there's like a huge red caution label on them. It's like, I wonder what that's for?
JM:
Yeah, this is pretty fun, for sure. You can find it in the uh...
Gretchen:
This is in the "Feminine Future."
JM:
"Feminine Future". Okay, yeah, right.
Nate:
And it's super short, too. I mean, it takes you like 20 minutes to read this, if that. Yeah, it's probably my favorite out of the ones we've done this episode, I think for an overall story, "Erewhon" obviously has some very interesting ideas in it, but it's just just dry. Whereas this one is just a lot of fun. And you're through it extremely quickly. And it doesn't stick around and drag or get boring at all.
Gretchen:
Yeah. And it's fun to read about two robots fighting each other.
Nate:
Slugging it over a broom.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
JM:
Yeah. Again, like the thing that I find most interesting about this is the kind of dissonance that I feel where I'm kind of just, you don't know how any of this works, right? And the author doesn't. And it's just this total speculation, right? And I don't know, it makes it interesting, because it does feel of its time in a way. But also, like, yeah, we're still now asking questions of how these automated things should behave in our world. And now we have robot vacuum cleaners in our houses. So I mean, we've had machines to help us domestically for a long time, including many electric conveniences, which Elizabeth could not have foreseen.
Nate:
I think even the vacuum cleaner would have probably blew her mind.
JM:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Here we are. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's one thing a man really needs in his life, I guess, in a domestic middle class household. And that is a friendly and amenable wife. So why don't we talk about that next?
Gretchen:
Okay.
(music: moody synth melodies)
Alice W. Fuller - "A Wife Manufactured to Order" (1895)
Gretchen:
According to Mike Ashley, in the story collection, "The Dreaming Sex", there were four Alice W. Fullers listed in the 1900 census. And he is uncertain which or whether any of them are the author of this next story, "A Wife Manufactured to Order".
Nate:
I always love puzzles like that.
JM:
Yes. So this is definitely one of our most obscure authors.
Gretchen:
Yeah. Pretty much nothing. There's not too much authors bio to go on here.
Nate:
That's great.
JM:
We don't really even know who this person was.
Gretchen:
Yeah, he does mention there was one Alice W. Fuller who was a teacher in her twenties living in Connecticut. And that is a possible candidate, but it is not confirmed. So that's really all I can say about the author's bio.
Nate:
Makes the research easy.
Gretchen:
Yeah. There was nowhere to even go.
JM:
Yeah. And that's kind of cool in a way because in contrast to being inundated with thinking about what kind of person Karl Hans Strobl was, you know, here we have this complete unknown. We don't even know what, who knows what politics she had.
Nate:
Hopefully she wasn't a Nazi. I don't think she was based on this story. But again, with Strobl, you can never tell.
Gretchen:
I assume she was at least an advocate for women's rights. I would assume you would think unless she was very inconsistent with her writing.
Nate:
Truth is stranger than fiction.
Gretchen:
Yes. But this is actually a story I have read before as I did read "The Dreaming Sex" a couple years ago, the entire anthology, although this was one that I vaguely remembered. I did not remember too much about it.
Nate:
It was pretty short.
Gretchen:
Yeah, it's a pretty short one. And there are quite a few in that anthology that are quite short.
JM:
So I thought about "The Future Eve" the entire time I was reading this story. Basically, spoiler, but I did. And I know, Gretchen, you haven't read it. And I know I criticize it a lot. I think we both did, Nate, when we did another podcast. And yet it's a book that is certain aspects of it have stuck with me in a way, right? And I think this is a really interesting mirror on that again, like, written by a woman, which perhaps has some significance, considering that we thought that "Future Eve" by l'Isle-Adam was was pretty misogynistic in a lot of ways, even though Hadaly the android was the best character of the book in a lot of ways. And she was pretty interesting. But like, it was almost in spite of the writer, right? But at the same time, it's not only in spite of the writer, but it's that in "Future Eve", we have almost like the "Frankenstein" thing where it's life created asexually by a man who doesn't participate in the birthing process, right? And he produces this person that's like perfect, right? And wonderful and beautiful. And we're like, we admire Hadaly. And Hadaly was the coolest thing that l'Isle-Adam came up with in that book, and that she was in a lot of ways a vibrant creation. But in some other ways, she was like totally subservient, right? She even had this thing designed into her body where if some other person besides the protagonist touched her in a certain way, she would like self destruct or something like that. Or no, she would she would like violently kill that person. That's right. That's how it happened.
This is from a different perspective, where it's like, yeah, you can't create something like this. And I just can't help but wonder if Alice Fuller, I mean, it seems unlikely that she would have read "Future Eve", but I don't know. It's just interesting to contemplate about, like, what if she had, right?
Nate:
Yeah. I'm kind of curious, Gretchen, on like "The Dreaming Sex" anthology. A lot of the other works that we've read by women that appear in these anthologies are like these utopian narratives that kind of have the same plot. Was there anything else that stood out for you in that anthology that I guess kind of plays along these same lines of domesticity, the women's fear as far as future technological extrapolation goes? Because it's kind of an interesting subject that really doesn't get touched upon in, I think, a articulate way. I mean, like, jam you were saying with Villiers, it brings up some interesting ideas, but the execution of it is clunky and feels just deeply sexist and anti-woman at the core, whereas these authors just don't have that element to them.
Gretchen:
The ones that are from the collection are not, at least the ones that I remember a little more than vaguely, do cover different, there's like some utopian stories as well. There's that "Sultana's Dream", which was covered, and there was also in that "The Moonstone Mass" by Spofford is in that the other ones that I remember, they don't really cover the same topic as this story does. They're kind of a bit more science fiction that I feel like you could picture being written by someone who really is invested in the domestic sphere. The other one that I do remember from this is "The Mortal Immortal" by Mary Shelley was in it, which is one that stood out quite a bit.
JM:
Yeah, I haven't read that yet.
Nate:
Yeah, that's when we have flag for later at some point. I mean, again, the order of these episodes is always kind of doing it whenever, but yeah, no, that was one that sounded interesting. And I guess it is interesting, the relationship that domesticity does have to these kind of stories as far as who is thinking about that and who isn't thinking about them at all.
JM:
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Gretchen:
Yes. But yeah, I could be forgetting that there might be another story in that collection that does cover a similar track, but it was a number of years ago, and I did read them all like back to back.
Nate:
Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, with these anthologies, where it's just a bunch of short stories after one another, I mean, like I read "The Dark Descent" like two or three years ago, we started the podcast and I couldn't give you plot summaries like half the stories in that anthology.
JM:
I love anthologies, but I tend to like dip in and out them, right? There's kind of read a story that sounds like it might be interesting, and there's many anthologies that I consider favorites that I still haven't read all those stories from. So yeah.
Gretchen:
That is similar to what I've been doing with like the weird and the I would like to start doing that more with the big book of sci fi.
Nate:
But yeah, but I think we want to do include these last three stories because they are part of those anthologies that are interesting to check out. I mean, the Strobl came from "The Big Book of Science Fiction".
JM:
Yeah.
Nate:
This one is from "The Dreaming Sex" and the previous one was from "The Feminine Future". All interesting anthologies were checking out. I mean, we've certainly covered some and others and we'll probably do in the future. But a lot of good anthologizing work put together by these editors that I think really highlight and raise the profile of total obscurities. I mean, we can't even verify that this was the right Alice match with the census. So I mean, it's just kind of fascinating.
Gretchen:
Yeah, I think I will get into the story and then we can share some of our thoughts. Sure. "A Wife Manufactured to Order" starts with the narrator, a man by the name of Charles Fitzsimmons, coming across a sign that captures his attention, proclaiming wives made to order, satisfaction guaranteed or money refunded. Having a curious nature inherited from his mother and still being a bachelor as he nears apparently the ripe old age of 40, he decides to investigate. After all, he cannot marry any of the women he knows, especially Florence Ward, who unfortunately had strong minded ways and inclinations to be investigating women's rights, politics, theosophy, and all that sort of thing. Something Charles could not endure.
Nate:
No, you can't have that.
Gretchen:
Yeah, you just can't have that in a relationship. Upon entering the establishment, he is met by a servant who says he can see his master if he waits, for the man is currently occupied with making a politician a quieter sort of wife than the one he had. Eventually, this master, a Mr. Sharper, makes Charles his acquaintance, though he does not make a great impression on the latter. His eyes have a sinister twinkle and his hand, Charles describes, was like a piece of cold, boiled pork. He does, however, promise Charles a life that can be any style he wants, one made of wax. Charles asks then how the woman can talk, and Sharper tells him he can create a number of phones based on the topics the customer has interest in.
JM:
Yeah, it's just so amusing how, like, unpleasant the shopkeeper is.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
JM:
She makes them seem like the last person you would want to, I guess, buy your bride from?
Gretchen:
Yeah. Like a very slimy man.
JM:
Yeah.
Gretchen:
When he hears that the wife costs $500 to $1,000, Charles decides to take some time to think about it. As he considers it, later that evening, he thinks about how pleasant it would be to have a partner with no differing opinions, not like Florence, who, while interesting to talk to, he could not marry.
JM:
She has opinions.
Gretchen:
She has thoughts of her own.
JM:
Terrible.
Gretchen:
And yes, he resolves to have a wife made to order. He rents a house making arrangements for his new wife, who he returns to the city to receive. He is awestruck by the beautiful woman that greets him, getting upset by Sharper's irreverence towards her and his reaction. The latter man simply laughs and gives him the various phones or tubes that allow her to talk, but she can place in a sleeve and slip into her hands when anyone is around. With that, Charles takes a spouse who he deems Margurette, although it looks like it should be Marguerite and it's spelled quite strange.
Nate:
Yeah, it is. It's like missing a couple letters, I think.
Gretchen:
Yeah. I assume it's "Margaret" and not "Marguerite". He takes her. Margurette home. On the way, the couple run into some young men who Charles over here is mocking him and wishes to have Margurette respond with a biting remark only to realize with some regret he hadn't ordered tubes of that kind. No matter, though, one cell at home, there will be no need for them. Things run smoothly for Charles and his Margurette for several years until a financial crash disrupts Charles' prosperity. As things get worse, Margurette never complains, remains entirely supportive, perhaps too much.
While Charles' occasional wish for her to differ from or oppose him a bit would fade before the crash, he finds himself at this point unable to handle her submissive attitude any longer. Eventually, he goes to Florence, and when he declares his need for her counsel and love for her, she reacts with indignation, reminding him he is a married man. He then reveals his deception and convinces her to go with him to his home to confirm what he has told her. When he does, he curses his selfishness and laments his pauper status, which Florence denies considering him a man in his prime able to still control his fate. If he's unhappy, that's his fault. When he responds with a desire to marry Florence, it is her turn to feel uncertain, so different she is from his current amiable wife.
If Charles, however, assures her that he's learned his lesson and wants a woman, one who retains her individuality, a thinking woman, Florence then says she'll consider it, but that they must wait a year as no one else knows that he had his late wife manufactured to order.
Nate:
I mean, real embarrassing if that one got out.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
Nate:
Yeah, I like this one a lot too. The prose style is a lot of fun with the turn of the century slang. That's just absolutely charming to read.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
Nate:
And I think it is incredibly, again, prescient and forward thinking that it's still very applicable to the modern day, as far as the satire goes.
I got sucked down a rabbit hole of looking at those dumb red pill, black pill videos on YouTube. And the way those people talk about women is exactly the same thing. It's like they don't want anybody with opinions. They want a blow up doll who knows like two or three phrases. And that's it.
JM:
What are you talking about? What Youtube?
Nate:
You're better off not knowing.
Gretchen:
There's this basically a subculture of like men online who are they're like incels sort of where it's like no women respect me, even though I'm a nice guy.
JM:
They want to have women, but they don't. And they're like angry about it.
Nate:
They want A Wife Manufactured to Order is what they want. Somebody who's not going to talk back who's just going to look pretty and sit around. And I think this perfectly satirizes that attitude as well as showing us at the end that that kind of relationship is meaningless and empty because it's not with a real person. It's with a series of tubes and valves and wax.
Gretchen:
Yeah. And it's like you can't even talk about the things that you haven't thought the tubes for.
Nate:
Exactly. Yeah.
JM:
How long was he with his automatic wife again? It was a while, right?
Gretchen:
It was a couple years.
Nate:
Yeah.
Gretchen:
That's what it's because it talks about before the before the crash. It's he's doing well for a couple of years and it's implied that he was married throughout that time. So yeah.
JM:
So nobody nobody was like, Hey, your wife doesn't like the things she says don't have anything to do with anything. They're not. What's wrong with her? Nobody said anything. I guess as part of the thing, right? It was like, you have A Wife Manufactured to Order. She doesn't do that. Then you don't have to as a man, I guess you don't have to be put in a position where you have to explain anything or justify anything because your wife just says platitudes and that's it. Yeah. I don't know. I guess so.
I guess it's a again, it's a it's a status reputation thing where you're like, I'm this number of years old, I need a wife to accompany me on things but not have her own opinions and views that will just say sweet nothings all the time. And of course, the story doesn't go into other things like how they would intimately spend time together. But I guess I guess he probably seeks that elsewhere because his wife doesn't mind, right? So that's probably part of the idea.
Nate:
Yeah.
Gretchen:
I thought I would go into this one after the last story because it's that learning is less in moment where it's like he does sort of realize the limitations of this machine that he's thought would bring him some sort of relationship. But of course, it is empty. It's an empty relationship.
Nate:
And this is very Dickensian revelation too. He only realizes the obvious thing when something like his entire world crashes down around him, like he loses everything in the financial crash and she's not able to work and she can't work.
JM:
She's not even not able to work, but she's like the things she says. I guess it's at that point that he realizes that his wife has no emotional resonance with him whatsoever, right? And just saying absolutely nothing about you.
Nate:
Right.
Gretchen:
Yeah. It's like you program a machine to just say nice things and agree with you. And if you want someone who is going to give you some feedback on what you want to know and they're not going to give it to you.
Nate:
Yeah. Just saying I love you isn't going to be very useful in that situation.
JM:
Right. Right. Exactly. And it just kind of hits on something, right? Like even even I know guys who are like this or they're, oh, I want this in my life. I want kids. I want like this kind of situation, right? And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, that's cool. But why don't you first set out to because you want all these things, right? You just set out to be with a partner that really cares about you and the way you think and the way you feel about things. And like, wouldn't that be better? Like, wouldn't that be more desirable to have first before you have all these other things that you want?
Nate:
Yeah. And there's just weird, I don't know if its weird because humanity has done it for like thousands of years, but social order that has been associated with marriage and children and relationships and all that that have kind of like started to radically change only within the last hundred years or so. And I think you can start to see that unraveling around this time when stories like this were being written.
JM:
Yeah. It's just like the Lindsay book that I was talking about earlier, you know, where it's like that seems to be, it's such a thing, the theme of the book where it's like people are frustrated by what they want versus what's expected. And stories like this, I guess start to challenge this main character, I guess represents even now a lot of people who want nothing but a robot. Yeah, in their life, right? Somebody who will make dinner too, right? Make dinner so that they come home and have a nice dinner, but won't argue with them ever, right?
Gretchen:
Yeah, but you need that person to say you're not happy, it's your fault, which is you need that spirit of Florence. Sometimes you can't just listen to people, remain completely satisfied with everything you're doing and just mindlessly agree with you and to never speak what they think you need someone like that, not just because that's you should be considering other human beings, but also for yourself.
JM:
Definitely. Yeah, I sort of have my doubts about the writer having read "Future Eve", but I just that was in my mind the whole time and it's just it's really funny how "Future Eve" has its faults. But in terms of the podcast and in terms of what we've done and I guess we will continue to do, it's one of the books like "Angel of the Revolution" that comes up pretty often. And maybe despite its faults, it's somehow resonant and it's somehow we can't help but relate it to things. And here I'm thinking to myself, yeah, this is the perspective of a woman who is like, yeah, okay, fine, like you created this perfect being. And the thing is like the thing about Hadaly is she's created by the misogynistic male writer of the book. So we can't help but like her because she's like, the special thing that normal reproduction can't make, right? And whereas this is from the perspective of somebody who's like, oh yeah, you can do that and you can make like a perfect woman that you have to put speaking tubes into, which I picture by the way, like player piano rolls, like when she's talking about the tubes that you stick in there, so that they'll have good conversation or something.
Nate:
Right, right.
JM:
I kind of pictured like, yeah, like a player piano music roll or something like that. You can stick that in there and get a wife that's placid and good natured, I guess, as far as that goes, but she's not going to really be your companion. And eventually you're going to want that woman with opinions that you kind of pushed aside earlier. And I can't help but wonder if Alice Fuller, whoever she was, maybe was in a situation where she had to fight for the affections of somebody, right? Where she was like, don't you understand that I have a brain and I can challenge you with things, but maybe you'll find it interesting and maybe you'll like it.
Nate:
Right. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me and I could imagine those stubborn attitudes being all too more common in 1895 than they are even today. So I could definitely see it being a very frustrating experience. Yeah. "The Future Eve" question is an interesting one. I know there was that very abridged translation that I think was released in English around this time, but again, it's hard to say and it's kind of a simple concept that again almost dates back to "Frankenstein" in a way where it wouldn't surprise me if she hadn't read it, it wouldn't surprise me if she had.
Gretchen:
Yeah, even like the story of "Pygmalion" and the creating someone like your ideal mate.
Nate:
Yeah, exactly.
JM:
Yeah. Yeah. But there's this like perversion as well, where it's like the man is creating life and he's he's wanting to circumvent the natural order of things, which is that life comes into existence from a woman's womb. Right. It's kind of interesting just the way that Alice Fuller can't help but see that the creation is inferior. Whereas l'Isle-Adam was like, Oh, I can make the most amazing woman creation. You just wait and see. Right. He's kind of showing that he did a cool thing despite himself, I guess. Whereas that was kind of the most interesting thing about the book, even though it was kind of like an adolescent fulfillment fantasy in a way, I guess.
Nate:
Yeah, this one was fun, though. I like the slot again, very short, very quick, doesn't bog or drag or anything like that. It's a lot of fun with the old timey slang and the concepts that addresses are from an interesting angle. So yeah, I definitely would recommend this one.
Gretchen:
Yeah, it does lack the slapstick of the past two stories, but I still think it's very it's it's similarly charming to read. And yeah, even with that lack, there is a nice humor to it that I think is worth reading.
JM:
Well, another thing I couldn't help but laugh at though was that he just like went ahead with it and didn't get any testimonials or anything like that. And there was no like, how do I know that your manufactured wives will do what they're supposed to do, right? Like, I don't know. Nowadays, I'd be like, Hey, man, you should look up some reviews online to see if that's really any good.
Nate:
Well, people were more than eager to buy electric corsets in the real world. So yeah, I think a wife manufactured order wouldn't be as tall of a order, if you will.
JM:
And I don't know, it's just funny is a picture seeing a sign like that and going, hum, that sounds like a really good idea. I should go in here and buy one of these. Sight unseen, no testimonials, nothing.
Nate:
Yeah.
Gretchen:
Must have just been so desperate at that point. You know, he was getting so old he had to find someone.
JM:
Oh, yeah.
Gretchen:
It wasn't going to be Florence.
JM:
No. Oh, I understand. I know how he feels. Believe me. So I get it, I guess. So yeah.
Yeah, good story. Definitely fun. Definitely. I do think definitely it was kind of funny that nothing went wrong with the wife either like nothing went wrong with her. She just basically, he just basically realized after a while, hey, it's really boring being with something like this.
Gretchen:
Yeah, it's not that she went wrong. She just went too well. Yeah, she worked too well to the point where he realized, maybe I shouldn't have someone this perfect who is so great. Maybe that's the problem.
Nate:
Yeah, kind of an existential flaw to begin with. And he's just approaching it from the wrong angle then.
Gretchen:
Yeah.
Nate:
That's really what she's getting at here, I think.
JM:
I don't really have anything else to add.
Nate:
No, I don't either.
JM:
And like most of these were pretty short stories. And it's best to just read them. So they're all fun, actually, all three of them, I would say are a good time for what they are.
Nate:
Alright, so what do we got for next time?
JM:
So next month, we have some really, really interesting and cool stuff coming up, I think, chronologically, I guess we'll go. We will be doing Fitz-James O'Brien's story, "The Wondersmith" from 1859. And longtime listeners of the podcast may remember way back on episode four, we did Fitz-James O'Brien's story, "The Diamond Lens". And we haven't returned to him since then. We're not necessarily big on returning to authors, but it's going to be really fun returning to Fitz James O'Brien after so long. And yeah, this, I've heard a little bit about this story, but I haven't read it yet. So I'm looking forward to it. Next, we'll be doing another return visit. This time, Mr. Edward Page Mitchell, who I must say that I'm sort of delighted to be returning to.
Nate:
Absolutely.
Gretchen:
Yes.
JM:
Yes, we really like Edward Page Mitchell. And we think that he's kind of one of the early, early science fiction writers that should be more recognized. So we'll be doing his story, "The Ablest Man in the World" from 1879. And we'll also be covering a very famous story in this case, from a well known author, who only wrote one work of speculative fiction. And is this work that we will be doing? The machine stops by E. M. Forster from 1909. Now, I have read this story before. Gretchen, you said you have read other works by him before. Nate, I don't believe you've read any Forster yet.
Nate:
I have read "A Passage to India", and I enjoyed it.
Gretchen:
Yes, I have read "A Passage to India", and I've also read Maurice, but I have not read "The Machine Stops". So I'm definitely looking forward to it.
Nate:
Yes, so am I.
JM:
So "The Machine Stops" is the only Forster that I have read so far. And I definitely, I definitely feel it's a remarkable piece of fiction, very, very ahead of its time. And I read it for the first time, just when coronavirus time started in 2020, and feeling this story as an expression of utmost human isolation at the time, was a really strange and powerful experience. And I'm looking forward to rereading it and talking about it at great length.
And we'll also be doing Karel Čapek's play, "RUR", also known as "Rossum's Universal Robots", a very famous instigatory work in the form of the science fiction genre. Gretchen, you've read this too before, right?
Gretchen:
Yes, this is the only Čapek I've read though. So I'm looking forward to revisiting it.
JM:
Nice. Yeah, I've read this and I've also read "War with the Newts," which I really, really thought was amazing. And this is a really cool thing too. We haven't really done too many plays on Chrononauts.
Nate:
No, there was that like pseudo drama in "Star Psi". And when we did that time travel episode, the initial time travel episode, I found this like Danish play where a character gets launched forward 5,000 years into the future or something, but it's never been translated to English and all the reviews say it's terrible.
JM:
So I think the most dramatic oriented things we've got are the "Presumption, the Fate of Frankenstein".
Nate:
Right. Yeah, I always forget about that one. Yeah. Right.
JM:
And also the Sigov plays, which maybe they were not performed, but they were certainly written as scenes from a play. Right. But yeah, these were back in the earlier days of the podcast. Gretchen was not with us at that time. But some of that stuff was interesting. Definitely. I think that this will be a very new kind of drama for us.
Nate:
And I think it's pretty much universally regarded as a classic. I haven't read it yet, but I'm definitely looking forward to it.
JM:
And finally, we are going to bring you another Chrononauts exclusive story. And it's been a while since we did one of these. And we are very excited to present for the first time in English, "The Defeat of Jonathan Govers" from 1929 by Volodymyr Vladko, a story originally written in Ukrainian. And it is available on our blogspot. So you can go and read it. It's very short, under 5000 words. And it's a fun little story about robots and workers rights and stuff. So yes, check it out. And we look forward to talking about it.
(pounding noises)
What the hell is that? Oh, no.
Uh, guys, I think it's the automatic doorman. Oh, no, I think somebody decided to tweak his nose. We were told by the owner's manual that that's a very terrible idea. He's right now crashing around in my apartment, destroying my kitchen. So I think we have to sign off. This is Chrononauts. And we hope you come see us next time when we talk about more machines and machine intelligences.
Bibliography:
Ashley, Mike - "The Feminine Future: Early Science Fiction by Women Writers" (2015)
Ashley, Mike - "The Dreaming Sex: Early Tales of Scientific Imagination by Women" (2011)
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